025a – המפלת חתיכה – פרק שלישי – נדה, דף כה ע”א

Parshtabina of Pumbedisa reached Ada the attendant up to his middle,^[1]

פרשתבינא - the name of the man.

and everyone else reached Parshtabina of Pumbedisa only up to his hips.

They asked before Rebbi: A woman who miscarries a shefir^[2] full of flesh — what is the law?

He said to them: I have not heard.

Rabbi Yishmael the son of Rabbi Yosei said before him: So said my father: “If it is full of blood, she is tamei as a niddah; if it is full of flesh, she is tamei with the tumah of birth.”^[3]

He said to him: Had you told us something new in your father’s name, we would have listened to you.

Now, since the first ruling he states like an individual opinion — like Sumchus,^[4] who said it in the name of Rabbi Meir —

כסומכוס - at the beginning of our perek: blood inside a piece of tissue makes her tamei as a niddah — and that is an individual’s opinion.

this one too — perhaps he said it following Rabbi Yehoshua.

כר' יהושע אמרה - who holds that because of the skin of the shefir alone she is tamei [with the tumah of birth. And that is an individual’s opinion. For perhaps they disagree even about one full of flesh: since it is not formed with features, it was never a child. And even though Rabbi Yehoshua disagrees about a shefir alone, about one full of blood he agrees that it is not a child, for the blood proves it.]

And the halachah does not follow Rabbi Yehoshua,

as it was taught in a beraisa: “A woman who miscarries a shefir that is not formed with features:^[5]

Rabbi Yehoshua says: It is a child.

And the Sages say: It is not a child.”

Rabbi Shimon ben Lakish said in the name of Rabbi Oshaya: The dispute is about a cloudy one,

בעכור - its contents are cloudy, for one can say that it was a child that dissolved.

but about a clear one, all agree that it is not a child.

בצלול - it is full of clear water.

And Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi said: The dispute is about a clear one.

It was asked of them: Is the dispute about a clear one, but about a cloudy one all agree that it is a child,

or perhaps the dispute is about both this and that?

Teiku — let it stand.^[6]

They raised an objection: “This Rabbi Yehoshua ben Chananya expounded: (Bereishis 3:21) ‘And Hashem Elokim made for Adam and for his wife garments of skin, and He clothed them’ — this teaches that the Holy One, blessed be He, does not make skin for a person unless it has been formed.”^[7]

So the matter depends on the skin: there is no difference between cloudy and clear.

Granted, if you say the dispute is about a clear one — that is why the verse was needed.

היינו דאיצטריך קרא - for Rabbi Yehoshua, who holds that because of the skin alone it is a child.

But if you say the dispute is about a cloudy one, why do I need a verse? It is mere reasoning!

אלא אי אמרת - that Rabbi Yehoshua’s reason is because it is cloudy, and one can say it dissolved, and not because of the skin — why do I need the verse?

Rather, learn from it that the dispute is about a clear one.

אלא לאו בצלול מחלוקת - and it is a refutation of Reish Lakish.

Learn from it.

And so said Rav Nachman in the name of Rabbah bar Avuha: The dispute is about a cloudy one, but about a clear one, all agree that it is not a child.

Rava raised an objection to Rav Nachman: “But they said:^[8]

אלא אמרו - the beginning of this is in Bechoros, perek Halokei’ach Beheimah Min Ha’oved Kochavim (19b), regarding exempting the one that comes after it from the law of the firstborn.

The sign of a child in a small animal is a tinuf, a discharge;

טינוף - after she has conceived from the male and the fetus has formed, it dissolves and flows from her, and goes out and away; and that discharge exempts her from the law of the firstborn.

in a large animal, an afterbirth;

in a woman, a shefir and an afterbirth.”

שפיר ושליא - either a shefir or an afterbirth.

Whereas a shefir in an animal does not exempt?

Granted, if you say the dispute is about a clear one — that is why in a woman, for whom the verse included it, a shefir exempts; in an animal, for which the verse did not include it, a shefir does not exempt.

But if you say the dispute is about a cloudy one — after all, it is a matter of reasoning: what difference is there between a woman and an animal?

Do you think Rabbi Yehoshua held it as certain?!

Rabbi Yehoshua was in doubt about it,

ספוקי מספקא ליה - about the cloudy one itself, whether it is a child or not.

and he goes here to stringency and there to stringency.

הכא לחומרא והכא לחומרא - regarding the firstborn of an animal he said that it is not a child, and it does not exempt the one that comes after it. For if you say it exempts, the owner will shear that next one and work with it, and perhaps that first one was not a child, and he will come to a stumbling-block. And regarding the tumah of a birth he goes to stringency, saying it is a child, and she is tamei for two weeks; and he does not hold that we give her the days of purity. And regarding the firstborn of a person, where it is a leniency — for he says it exempts the one that comes after it — do we not mind? Because there is no sanctity in a human firstborn, only money for the kohen, five sela’im; and a doubt in money goes to leniency, for the kohen is taking from his fellow, and the burden of proof is on him.

Regarding a woman, since it is a matter of money — a doubt in money goes to leniency.^[9]

Regarding an animal, since it is a matter of prohibition, for there is the matter of shearing and work^[10] — a doubt in a prohibition goes to stringency.

So too regarding a woman — a doubt in tumah goes to stringency.

But is he really in doubt?!

Doesn’t a verse say it?

It is rabbinic, and the verse is a mere asmachta.^[11]

Rav Chanina bar Shelamya said to Rav: There is Rebbi,

הא רבי - who said above, “I have not heard.”

there is Rabbi Yishmael the son of Rabbi Yosei,

והא רבי ישמעאל - who said, “full of flesh — she is tamei with the tumah of birth.”

and there is Rabbi Oshaya,

והא רבי אושעיא - who said, “the dispute is about a cloudy one.”

and there is Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi.

והא רבי יהושע בן לוי - who said, “the dispute is about a clear one.”

Whom does the master hold like?

He said to him: I say, both this and that — she need not be concerned.

אחד זה ואחד זה - both a cloudy one and a clear one.

And Shmuel said: Both this and that — she must be concerned.

חוששת - she observes the days of tumah, and she has no days of purity, for it is a doubtful child and not a certain one.

And Shmuel follows his own reasoning,

for when Rav Dimi came he said: They never declared a shefir clean

לא דכו שפיר - they never released a woman who miscarried a shefir from the two weeks — even in a dry birth.^[12]

in Neharde’a,

נהרדעא - Shmuel’s place.

except for that shefir which came before Shmuel, where a hair placed on it on one side could be seen from the other side.

He said: If it were a child, it would not be so clear.

זיג - clear.

And if it was formed with features, etc.^[13] The Rabbis taught: “Which is a shefir formed with features?

Abba Shaul says: The beginning of its formation is from its head.

And its two eyes are like two drops of a fly.

טיפין של זבוב - a fly’s eyes.

Rabbi Chiya taught: ‘Far apart from each other.’

Two nostrils — like two drops of a fly.

Rabbi Chiya taught: ‘And close to each other.’

And its mouth is stretched like a hair.

ופיו מתוח כחוט השערה - a small slit, which looks as if a hair were stretched there.

And its body is like a lentil.

גויתו - the male organ. And what we learned in the Mishnah, “she sits for a male and for a female” — which shows that we are in doubt whether it is male or female? It speaks of where the organ is not recognizable in it.

And if it was a female, it is judged like a barley grain lengthwise.

כשעורה - it is split lengthwise.

And it has no articulation of hands and feet.

וחיתוך ידים ורגלים - they are not yet visible, as we said: the beginning of its formation is from its head.

And concerning it, it is stated explicitly in the Writings:

(Iyov 10:10–12) ‘Have You not poured me out like milk, and curdled me like cheese?

כחלב - this is the seed, which is poured out and thin at first, at the time it comes out, like milk; and afterward it becomes congealed.

Clothed me with skin and flesh,

and knit me together with bones and sinews;

You granted me life and kindness,

and Your providence has guarded my spirit.’

And one does not examine it in water,

for water is strong

Tosafos

פרשתבינא - Rashi explains it as a man’s name, and so too in the Aruch. But it is not so, for if so it should have said “from Pumbedisa.” Rather, the Rashbam explained it as a term for stewardship and rule.

מלא בשר מהו - From our Mishnah, which teaches “full of blood” and “full of water,” one cannot resolve it, for perhaps with one full of flesh she must be concerned, but it is not certainly a child. Alternatively, the Mishnah did not list it because it does not deal with a disputed case.

שמא כר' יהושע - Even though the Gemara is about to say the dispute is about a clear one, but about a cloudy one all agree that it is a child, Rebbi too was in doubt about this, since he says “perhaps.”

(לעיל) כסומכוס - And if you ask: if a shefir full of blood is like a piece of tissue with blood inside it, then a shefir full of flesh should be like a piece of flesh, about which it is said in our perek that she is not tamei with the tumah of birth when it has no bone. One can answer that a shefir resembles a child more than a piece of tissue does, and makes her tamei even without bone, even though with one full of blood the two are the same.

מחלוקת בצלול - Rashi explains: full of water, and so it seems. But it is difficult: is it any better than one full of blood, of which it was said above that she is tamei as a niddah and not for birth, even according to Rabbi Yehoshua? Therefore it seems right to explain that clear and cloudy refer to cloudy flesh and clear flesh.

שאין הקב"ה עושה עור כו' - for “garments of skin” speaks of human skin, as the Targum renders it: on the skin of their flesh.

סימן ולד בבהמה דקה טינוף - This tinuf is the child itself, and it is unlike the tinuf mentioned later — “most animals discharge” — for there it is a discharge after the child has formed.

גבי בהמה לחומרא - And even though it is a leniency, in that money is taken out of a Yisrael’s possession — that is because if he did not give it to the kohen, he would come to permit it for shearing and work.

אינה חוששת - And Rav holds that the dispute of [Rabbi Yehoshua] and the Rabbis is about a cloudy one.

תחלת ברייתו מראשו - This is puzzling, for in the last perek of Sotah (45b) Abba Shaul holds that the beginning of its formation is from its navel, and it sends out its roots this way and that. Rabbeinu Tam holds that the reading is “like a rashon,”^[14] and so explained Rabbeinu Chananel; and in the Tosefta it explains: like a kind of locust, for we translate “sal’am” as “rashon.” And so it seems, that it speaks of the size of the limbs.

עור ובשר תלבישני ועצמות וגידים תסוככני - First skin and flesh and then bones and sinews; yet in the revival of the dead in Yechezkel (chapter 37) it is the reverse: sinews and then flesh. And the Midrash explains: to what is the matter comparable? To a person who undresses and dresses again — what he takes off first, he puts on last. But at the start of a child’s formation, skin and flesh come first and afterward bones and sinews.

Notes

1. 1. This closes the list at the end of the previous amud of how tall certain men were, each reaching the one before him only to the shoulders. Ada the attendant was so tall that Parshtabina of Pumbedisa reached only to his middle, while everyone else reached Parshtabina only to his hips. Tosafos read פרשתבינא as a title of office rather than a name.
2. 2. A shefir is the sac in which a fetus develops. At times a woman miscarries a sac that shows no formed child, and the sugya asks whether such a miscarriage counts as a birth.
3. 3. A woman who gives birth is tamei for seven days after a boy and fourteen after a girl, followed by days of purity, in which blood she sees does not make her tamei. A niddah is simply tamei for seven days and has no days of purity.
4. 4. Sumchus, in the name of Rabbi Meir, holds (at the beginning of our perek) that blood inside a piece of tissue makes her tamei as a niddah, and that is an individual opinion. Since Rabbi Yishmael’s first ruling matches an individual, Rebbi suspects that his second one does too.
5. 5. Formed with features (מרוקם) means that a shape can be recognized in it — a face, limbs — as the beraisa below describes. One that is not formed shows no shape at all.
6. 6. Teiku: the question is left unresolved.
7. 7. That is, Hashem forms skin only on a fetus that has taken shape, so the skin itself is a sign of a child.
8. 8. A firstborn (bechor) of a kosher animal is holy and is given to the kohen; a firstborn son is redeemed for five sela’im. Only the first issue of the womb is a bechor, so if any child — even a miscarriage — came out first, the next one is exempt. This Mishnah lists what counts as a child for this purpose.
9. 9. The redemption of a firstborn son is only a monetary debt to the kohen. In a doubt about money, the one who seeks to take from another must bring proof, so the father need not pay.
10. 10. A firstborn animal is holy and may not be shorn or worked. If the shefir were held to exempt the next animal, the owner would treat that animal as ordinary — and perhaps it is really the bechor.
11. 11. An asmachta is a verse the Sages used as a support for a rabbinic law; it is not the Torah source of the law.
12. 12. A “dry birth” is a birth with no bleeding. Even then they made her keep the fourteen days of a girl’s birth, treating the shefir as a possible child.
13. 13. The Mishnah: one who miscarries a shefir full of water, full of blood, and so on, need not be concerned for a child; but if it was formed with features, she must sit for a male and for a female — keeping the stringencies of both, since its sex is not known.
14. 14. A rashon is a kind of locust; the Targum renders sal’am as rashon. On this reading Abba Shaul describes the size of the fetus at the start of its formation, like a locust, not which limb forms first.