049b - יש בכור פרק שמיני בכורות דף מט, ע"ב

Here too it is no different.^[1]

And Shmuel can tell you: There, it is in his power to betroth her now,^[2] [so he can also betroth her for later]; here, it is not in his power to redeem him now.

And even though we hold that wherever Rav and Shmuel disagree, the halachah follows Rav in ritual prohibitions and Shmuel in monetary law,^[3] here the halachah follows Shmuel.

We learned [in our Mishnah]: If he died within thirty days, even though [the father] gave [the money] to the kohen, he must return the five sela’im to him.^[4]

The reason is that he died; but if he did not die, his son is redeemed!

What are we dealing with here? Where the coins are still in existence.

Come and hear: He is presumed not to have been redeemed until he brings proof that he was redeemed.^[5]

ת"ש - From our Mishnah: If the father died within thirty days, [the son] is presumed not to have been redeemed etc.

עד שיביא ראיה גרסינן - We read “until he brings proof”; and if he brings proof [that his father redeemed him within thirty days], he is redeemed – which is difficult for Shmuel.

There too, it is where the coins are still in existence, intact.

A tanna recited before Rav Yehudah:^[6] One who redeems his son within thirty days – his son is redeemed.

He said to him: Shmuel said his son is not redeemed, and you say his son is redeemed?!

And even though we hold like Rav in ritual prohibitions and like Shmuel in monetary law, here the halachah follows Shmuel.

[If] he is to be redeemed and his son is to be redeemed, he comes before his son etc.:^[7]

The Rabbis taught: [If] he is to be redeemed and his son is to be redeemed – he comes before his son.

Rebbi Yehudah says: His son comes before him, for his own mitzvah is on his father, and the mitzvah of his son is on him.

Rebbi Yirmiyah said: All agree that where there are only five sela’im, he comes before his son.

What is the reason?

Because his own mitzvah takes precedence.

They disagree where there are five [sela’im’s worth of] mortgaged property and five [of] free property.^[8]

Rebbi Yehudah holds: A loan written in the Torah is like [a loan] written in a document,^[9] and his own [five sela’im]

ודידיה - His own five sela’im: the kohen goes and collects them from mortgaged property, for the kohen’s lien came first. And this is what [the beraisa] says: for his own mitzvah is on his father – that is, through his father those properties became mortgaged to the kohen.

[the kohen] goes and seizes from the mortgaged property, and with these five free [sela’im] he redeems his son.

ובהנך חמש בני חרי פריק לבניה - Immediately; for if he gave the free [property] for his own redemption, his son could no longer be redeemed, since perhaps the buyers’ lien came before his son’s birth.

And the Rabbis hold: A loan written in the Torah is not like [a loan] written in a document.

לאו ככתובה בשטר דמיא - And if he gave the free [property] for his son’s redemption, he himself could no longer be redeemed, since the kohen cannot collect from buyers.

Therefore his own mitzvah takes precedence.

Mishnah

The five sela’im of a son are by the Tyrian maneh.^[10]

מנה צורי - It is explained in the Gemara.

The thirty of a slave, the fifty of the violator and of the seducer,^[11]

חמשים של אונס ושל מפתה - That is: and likewise the fifty of the violator etc.

and the hundred of the one who defames [his wife]^[12] – all of them are in the shekel of the Sanctuary,^[13] by the Tyrian maneh.

וכולן בשקל הקדש - Which is twenty ma’ah,^[14] and those ma’ah are of the coins of the Tyrian maneh. And in the Gemara it explains why [the Tanna] needed to go back and teach this, etc.

And all of them may be redeemed with money or with money’s worth, except for shekalim.^[15]

חוץ משקלים - The shekalim brought to the Chamber in Adar: there they bring only a coin of half-shekels.

Gemara

The Tyrian maneh:^[16]

Rebbi Assi said: A maneh of Tyre.

מנה של צורי - That which circulates in the country of Tyre, where the sela is four zuz, and the zuz is the weight of gold of the weight of two and a half pshitin by the iron weight.

Rebbi Ami said: An Arabian dinar.

רבי אמי אומר - The Tyrian sela is the Arabian, Ishmaelite dinar. And its measure was not explained to me, and I found in a responsum of the Babylonian Geonim that seven of the dinars mentioned throughout the Talmud – where the dinar is six silver ma’ah – make ten of those of Arabia; and in Arabic they call it magra’os.

Rebbi Chanina says: A Syrian istera,

איסתירא סוסריתא - Old sela’im.

of which eight are sold for a dinar;

דמזדבנא תמניא - Eight of them for a dinar.

five of them are for the redemption of the son.^[17]

Tosfos

ודידיה אזיל וטריף ממשעבדי ובהני חמש בני חורין פריק ליה לבריה - And if you will say: How does he collect from mortgaged property? We do not collect from mortgaged property where there is free property, and here there are five [sela’im of] free property! If he redeemed his son first, it would be fine. And if you will say: Still, let the buyers go back [and collect] from these five with which the kohen redeemed his son, for whichever way you look at it their lien comes before the birth of his son – for if his son’s birth came first, then [the kohen] could collect from the buyers for his son’s redemption just as for his own redemption. And one can say: here it deals with buyers who bought from his father; therefore they do not come back against property that he himself bought. And one can further say: [it deals] where he did not write de’akni for the buyers,^[18] and he bought these five free [sela’im’s worth] afterwards; and even where he wrote de’akni for him it is a question in Perek Mi SheMeis (Bava Basra 157a), but where he did not write it for him, we hold that it is not mortgaged. And if you will say: If these are mortgaged in property he bought from his father, it is fine; but in property he himself bought, how are they mortgaged for his own redemption? For when does the obligation of his own redemption take effect? When he brings two hairs^[19] and becomes an adult; property he bought afterwards would no longer be mortgaged, since he did not write de’akni to the kohen. And one must say that it necessarily deals where he inherited from his father. However, according to Rebbi Yehudah too, you sometimes find that he comes before his son: for example, where he has no property from his father, and after he brought hairs he bought these lands and sold them after his son’s birth, so that for his son’s redemption [the kohen] goes and collects from the mortgaged property. And one can further say that on property he bought afterwards a lien does take effect for redemption, even though he did not write de’akni, because every moment the obligation of redemption rides upon him; and since we regard it as a loan [written] in a document, it is as if it were written after he bought the lands.

חמש סלעים של בן (ב') [כו'] - The asham [valued] in silver, shekalim and arachin^[20] the Tanna did not need to teach: for regarding the asham it is written explicitly “in the shekel of the Sanctuary,” and arachin too are obviously in the shekel of the Sanctuary, since it is written (Vayikra 27:25): And every valuation of yours shall be in the shekel of the Sanctuary.

אמר רבי אסי מנה של צורי - The Kuntres^[21] explained: That which circulates in the country of Tyre; and this is the measure of a sela of that maneh: for in a sela there are four zuz, and the zuz is like the weight of a gold coin of the weight of two and a half pshitim by the iron weight. And it seems that he had a tradition from his teachers. And it implies that he means that the zuz is a silver dinar and its weight is that of a gold one. And likewise he explained in his commentary on Chumash, in Parshas V’eileh HaMishpatim regarding the thirty shekels, that the shekel weighs four gold coins, which are half an ounce by the true weight of Cologne – implying too that he means that a silver and a gold dinar weigh the same, since a sela is four dinars. But this does not seem right to Rabbeinu Tam, since [the Gemara] says that a gold dinar weighs as much as two of silver, as I will explain shortly. And further, the Kuntres explained that Rebbi Chanina, who said a Syrian istera, of which eight are sold for a dinar, means the dinar mentioned throughout the Talmud, which is an eighth of the Tyrian dinar, and that Rebbi Chanina is a Tanna and disagrees with the Mishnah. But then the five sela’im are a trifling thing: what is meant by five of them are for the redemption of the son, if eight of them are worth only an eighth of a Tyrian dinar, and the Tyrian itself weighs only two and a half pshitim? It would turn out that the five sela’im of a son are not worth one pashut of our coinage, according to Rebbi Chanina! And further, he explains the dinar as a provincial dinar, which in the language of the Mishnah is usually called a zuz and in the language of the Talmud is usually called pshiti – as in that [passage] in Kesubos (67a), where we say five zuz of pshiti. And further, everywhere an unqualified dinar is a gold one, which is sold for twenty-five zuz,^[22] [as] in the first perek of Kiddushin (40a), concerning Rav Kahana, to whom Eliyahu gave a bag of dinars, and Rebbi Ami, who found a ship of dinars – that is, of gold dinars. And it seems right to explain that they all do not disagree, and they stand on the Mishnah to explain to us the measure: according to Rebbi Ami, “Tyrian maneh” means sela’im – five sela’im of a maneh of the sela’im of a son.

רבי אמי אמר דינרא ערבא - That is: an Arabian dinar is worth five sela’im of a son; and not as the Kuntres explained, that the Tyrian sela is an Arabian dinar. And he also explained: “I found in a responsum of the Babylonian Geonim that seven of the dinars mentioned everywhere in the Talmud, where the dinar is six silver ma’ah, make ten of those of Arabia.” And his words contradict each other: since the Arabian dinar is smaller even than the dinar [mentioned] throughout the Talmud, it cannot be that the Tyrian sela is the Arabian dinar – for is not a sela four of those Tyrian dinars [mentioned] throughout the Talmud, as we say in Kiddushin and everywhere? Rather, he speaks of gold dinars, and the Arabian is smaller than the Tyrian gold dinar: for the Tyrian is sold for twenty-five silver [dinars] and the Arabian for twenty, as I explained, so that its measure is like five sela’im of a son.

רבי חנינא אומר איסתירא ססורייא - So it is written in most texts, but the Kuntres explained sevasrisa. It seems that both this and that are named after Syria, as in (Bava Kamma 83a) Sursi, which refers to Syria. And it is a Syrian sela, eight of which are sold for a dinar – that is, for a Syrian gold dinar, which is larger than the Tyrian gold dinar [mentioned] throughout the Talmud, for the Syrian is not sold for [only] twenty-five. And this Syrian [dinar], which is worth eight [sela’im] of a son, is thirty-two silver dinars, for the sela is four dinars.

Notes

1. 1. This line completes Rav’s argument from the end of the previous amud (Bechoros 49a): there, with betrothal set to take effect after thirty days, is it not a valid betrothal even though the coins were used up? Here too it is no different.
2. 2. Betrothal can take effect at once, so a man may also set it to take effect later. A firstborn, however, cannot be redeemed before thirty days, so money given earlier is no more than a gift.
3. 3. The general rule for their disputes: Rav is followed in issur (what is forbidden or permitted) and Shmuel in dinim (monetary law).
4. 4. Our Mishnah (Bechoros 49a): a son who dies within thirty days never became obligated in redemption, so the kohen returns the five sela’im he received.
5. 5. Our Mishnah (Bechoros 49a): if the father died within thirty days, the son is presumed unredeemed, since people do not redeem before thirty days. Rashi reads “until he brings proof”; other texts read “until they tell him.”
6. 6. A tanna here is a reciter who memorised beraisos and recited them before the Amora in the study hall.
7. 7. Our Mishnah (Bechoros 49a): a man who was never redeemed himself and also has a firstborn son to redeem – his own redemption comes before his son’s.
8. 8. Nechasim meshubadim (mortgaged property) is land the debtor sold to others after the debt arose; a creditor holding a document can seize it from the buyers. Bnei chorin (free property) is property still in the debtor’s hands.
9. 9. A loan written in a document places a lien on the borrower’s land, so the lender can collect even from land later sold. A “loan written in the Torah” is a debt the Torah itself imposes, such as pidyon haben; the question is whether it carries the same lien.
10. 10. The maneh tzuri is the silver coinage of Tyre (Tzor). The Gemara below discusses what it is.
11. 11. Thirty shekels are paid by the owner of an ox that killed a slave (Shemos 21:32); fifty are paid by one who violates or seduces a young maiden (Devarim 22:29).
12. 12. One who falsely claims that his young wife was unfaithful while betrothed pays her father a hundred silver [shekels] (Devarim 22:19).
13. 13. The shekel of the Sanctuary is the Torah’s shekel, i.e. the sela, four dinars.
14. 14. A ma’ah is a small coin, a sixth of a dinar. The Torah’s shekel is twenty gerah (Shemos 30:13), which Onkelos renders twenty ma’ah.
15. 15. Shekalim: the half-shekel every Jew gives each year for the communal offerings, collected in Adar.
16. 16. The Mishnah set all these payments by the Tyrian maneh without saying what that coin is or what it is worth.
17. 17. The discussion of the Tyrian maneh continues on the next amud (Bechoros 50a) with Rebbi Yochanan’s opinion.
18. 18. De’akni (“what I shall acquire”): a clause in a document mortgaging property the writer acquires later; without it, later-acquired property is not mortgaged.
19. 19. Two hairs are the sign of physical maturity; with them a boy becomes an adult, obligated in mitzvos.
20. 20. Arachin: one who vows the “valuation” of a person gives the Sanctuary a fixed sum set by the Torah according to age and sex (Vayikra 27). The asham is an offering said to be valued “in silver shekels” (Vayikra 5:15).
21. 21. The Kuntres (“booklet”) is Tosfos’ name for Rashi’s commentary.
22. 22. A gold dinar was worth twenty-five silver dinars (zuz).